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Post by Valancy on Aug 16, 2009 10:12:12 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I just don't understand what either of you mean. Why on earth would having always 1st or 2nd cast make anything better in that respect? You still wouldn't know much beforehand on which days of the month they're going to have which casts, and you still couldn't trust there not to be illnesses and whatnot. And it's not like it works that way in any other countries either. In fact, in other places, if your favourite actor doesn't happen to have a regularly updated website where it's stated when they'll be playing, you may not know at all who you're going to get, whereas with the Operettszínház you will at least know it roughly a month beforehand, though you know there may be a change if it's necessary.
And because of illnesses and overlapping performances and such there will be occasions where people who don't usually play together will play together, isn't it better that they're used to it, through having played together every now and then? And if you happen to love certain actors in 1st/2nd cast and despise others, it sure is comfortable if they're mixed sometimes. For example, I will not see Kata's Elisabeth again if I can help it, but I do want to see Szilveszter's Death and Zoltán's Franz-Joseph again; considering this, it's very good (assuming Kata is not quitting) that the casts will be mixed. Also, I adore Szabó Dávid's Rudolf but find that I don't much care to have him combined with Máté's Death; so it's good that even if Máté is not quitting, I will have a chance of seeing him with Szilveszter or Zsolt.
I just find that the mixed casts of the Operettsínház are such a richness to their musicals. It's fascinating to see how different actors play against each other, and it gives new dimensions to the character and the story to have different character interpretations put together. I've never seen that would make it more difficult to see the actors you want to, since that's not a given in any other theatre or country either.
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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Aug 16, 2009 10:45:52 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I just don't understand what either of you mean. Why on earth would having always 1st or 2nd cast make anything better in that respect? You still wouldn't know much beforehand on which days of the month they're going to have which casts, and you still couldn't trust there not to be illnesses and whatnot. And it's not like it works that way in any other countries either. In fact, in other places, if your favourite actor doesn't happen to have a regularly updated website where it's stated when they'll be playing, you may not know at all who you're going to get, whereas with the Operettszínház you will at least know it roughly a month beforehand, though you know there may be a change if it's necessary. [...] I just find that the mixed casts of the Operettsínház are such a richness to their musicals. It's fascinating to see how different actors play against each other, and it gives new dimensions to the character and the story to have different character interpretations put together. I've never seen that would make it more difficult to see the actors you want to, since that's not a given in any other theatre or country either. You speak because you lived there and were able to see the shows more than once. You could take advantage of that "richness". What I think you're not getting is that common tourists don't have the time to enjoy all the Cast mixes possible ('cause they are in the Town just for some time and it's normal that they want to see all the nice things Budapest has to offer rather than spend their days just on the Theater...) and so it's rather good if they can at least chose between 1st or 2nd Cast and count on the actor they want to see to be on stage. Illness etc happens of course but that's beyond the Theaters power. All the rest is. And at least here (I don't know how it works in Vienna since I just bought the tickets for the entire week) actors have fixed performance days. Example: Actress A is on stage on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and Actress B is on stage Tuesday, Thursday and Saturdays. That way you always know which actor/actress you'll be seing without having to repeat.
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Post by Valancy on Aug 16, 2009 11:36:00 GMT -5
No, I would say the same thing if I hadn't lived there. Because there actors don't have fixed performance days. A particular show is usually playing only a few days at a time, at most a week or so. Since they're not always playing on the same weekdays anyway, it would be impossible to have such fixed performance dates. Even when there are full first and second cast performances, there is absolutely no way to know (before the cast info comes out) who will play when. A little more often than not, Saturday evenings, Sunday afternoons and first shows of the run are full first cast, but there are also a lot of cases when it isn't so. If they started doing full first and second cast shows, you could count on actor A always playing with actor B but you couldn't count on actor A playing on a particular day. So it wouldn't in any way increase your chances of catching the actor you want.
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safira
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Post by safira on Aug 16, 2009 14:21:20 GMT -5
Well, here in Germany most shows don´t offer cast plans before the show. So trying here to see an actor either means looking if he/she writes his/her performances on the own homepage or just go there and hope for luck. Quite bad if you want to see an actor for sure. And seeing a certain combination is like winning in a lottery! That´s one reason why I love the stable cast of the Operettsínház. Abd hey, they don´t need to copy everything other theatres do!? The Operettsínház usually sets the cast lists on the homepage 4 weeks before the show. But to get a cheap flight or plan your holidays (I can´t go off work that quick) this may already be too late if they act with mixed casts. With steady casts you can still count on the first cast playing the first show and the second cast acting the next day. Sure this may change suddenly for single characters but not for the whole team. Ok, mixed casts may be nice if you definitely don´t want to se an actor on stage but another one instead - as long as you have the luck and time to wait for this combination. If you want to see somebody certain for sure and can go there for a fwe days only it´s nicer to know when he/she will act. And the chance to know this is higher with a stable cast than with a mixed one. Sure some combinations would be interesting. On the other hand a stable cast can develope differently. They know each other´s role profiles well and may find new little aspects which fit together. That way they don´t only develope their own role but all the connections between the characters. And with a mixed team you need more time for that because you must find another way to communicate with another role version. It´s noit that you can put X and Y on stage and it will work like with X and W. So both ways have their advantages.
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Post by Valancy on Aug 19, 2009 3:44:20 GMT -5
The Operettsínház usually sets the cast lists on the homepage 4 weeks before the show. But to get a cheap flight or plan your holidays (I can´t go off work that quick) this may already be too late if they act with mixed casts. With steady casts you can still count on the first cast playing the first show and the second cast acting the next day. Sure this may change suddenly for single characters but not for the whole team. But how often is it like this? In my experience it just isn't... The first cast may play in a very likely or a very unlikely performance. I've pretty much just learned to accept that unpredictability of casts as a price for enjoying the performances. Because on the other hand, if you can be there for two consecutive days/performances you can be almost sure that those shows will have different casts. And the tickets are much cheaper than the tickets for German or Austrian shows, so it won't kill you to see it twice. Plus, you probably just need to book the flights, in most cases you can wait for the tickets until you know the (planned) cast list. So as long as you go so that you've got a few options for when to go... It just seems to me that to have steady, completely predictable first cast/second cast performances they'd have to totally change how they do these things now, and it doesn't seem to have much of a point. Anyway, enough of that - I've probably stated my opinion on this quite clearly and it's not going to change. I've found some better-quality pictures from the Szeged Elisabeth with Zsolt's Death: www.vivalamusical.com/gallery_details.php?id=elisabethszegedma.hu/hir/2009/08/elisabeth-a-legenda-visszatert/Niki looks gorgeous in them but I still think Zsolt's look is weird. Though some people who've seen him live are quite in raptures over him and don't complain about the look, so maybe the look is just really, really un-photogenic? There was an interview with Zsolt about playing Death and he said, among other things, that it was a surprise to him to get this role and he had to rehearse it in a hurry while the rehearsals for Szép nyári nap were going on on the main stage of the theatre. This coupled with Máté fans on Hungarian forums saying that Máté isn't playing Death anymore, I'm assuming that for whatever reason Máté quit rather unexpectedly quickly and they had to find a replacement in a hurry. I assume we'll see in a few weeks if Máté indeed has quit, when they'll update the cast info for the autumn. Don't know exactly when they'll do it, but surely by the beginning of the new season. In the interview, Zsolt also said that Szilveszter had helped him very much in the rehearsals, always being there and telling him what to do when etc. and they'd started joking about how they'd moved in together into Deaths' tower.
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safira
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Post by safira on Aug 19, 2009 15:30:48 GMT -5
Hey Valancy, I don´t want you to change your opinion. I just want to tell you my view. I´ve read the castlists for the last 2 1/2 years now and until this year the Operettsínház had quite stable casts. That´s why I was able to know which shows I must see to see both Pfeiffer in Rudolf. And that´s why I was so surprised about this year´s mixed casts. No, it won´t kill me to see a show twice. It´s exactly what I "have to" do to see all my favourites anyway. Some seem to act the same role more often. But I´d be disappointed if I´d see two shows and the same actor on both days. But enough of that. Thanks for the new links. To be honest, I don´t think Szilveszter is beautiful with the make up but Zsolt looks worse with it. But I like their joke about the Death´s tower.
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Post by Valancy on Aug 20, 2009 3:28:21 GMT -5
I just meant that I seemed to have difficulties communicating why I didn't find the suggestion about stable casts very reasonable, but I'd said what I could about the matter. Anyway. I don't remember exactly what I thought of the stability of the casts beforehand, though I remember that figuring out the likelihood of catching the right cast in my first Elisabeth seemed difficult enough... But I know that I've been seeing shows in the Operettszínház since January 2008, have seen (please don't tell this to my parents) something over 50 performances, and I did a calculation last night and could identify all of 6 performances that had had a full first or second cast. (I happen to have a really good memory for stuff like that, so most likely I'm right.) Plus a couple of Mozarts that had almost full first/second cast save one actor. And there rarely was much of a logic about when it was a full first or second cast; they mostly seemed to be exactly when you would have thought the opposite. If you see the first show of the season or the New Year's Eve show, you will probably catch the first cast, though. I'm guessing that at least one of the reasons for a lot of the mixed cast stuff is this: they have quite many new actors nowadays, who aren't well known but who they want to make well-known because they're hoping to cast them successfully in more musicals in the future. Because they aren't well-known yet and lack experience, they've been in second cast, but if there were full first-cast and second-cast shows and you could predict who will play when - well, most people would only buy tickets to the shows with Dolhai Attila (or other well-known stars) because they already know they like them. Whereas now, people will unexpectedly end up seeing the actors they don't know, realise they're good, and in future will also buy tickets to their shows. And voilà, there's a chance that Dolhai Attila will maybe not have to play Romeo still when he's 40 years old because they'll actually have other young men who sell tickets, too. If this is the logic, I understand it quite well - especially as I happen to be a big fan of several actors who get ignored by the large public for not being the better-known first cast name. Anyway, here are some more pictures of the second cast in Szeged: www.szegedgaleria.hu/kepgaleria/szabadteri-jatekok/elisabeth/And photos from the rehearsals of the first cast: www.operettszinhaz.hu/galeria.php?kategoria=144&kep=4080I do think Szilveszter is amazingly beautiful in the Death look, but tastes differ. However, I don't think it can be disagreed that the look they've given him suits him much better than the look they've given Zsolt. I'm rather miffed, because I know it's perfectly possible to make him stunning. Hopefully, seeing him live, the charisma and the voice make you ignore the look or make it seem better.
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safira
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Post by safira on Aug 20, 2009 14:57:57 GMT -5
So our experiences with the cast of the Operettszínház are very different. Except one or two persons in the whole cast I always got either first or second cast on stage just as planned since July 2007. I haven´t seen so many shows there, yet, but read the castlist regularly. And I found out they keep the homepage very topical and change names if there´s a sudden change on stage. I wish other theatres would just put a list of the day on their homepage, too. *sigh* I must say your thoughts about new cast members sound realistic to me. It might be difficult to sell tickets if you put one "superstar" and a "nobody" on stage in the same role. In that case you need another "superstar" in another role to make people see both casts. And another Romeo instead of a "40 years old" one would be nice. ;-) I must admit that live in Budapest I didn´t find Szilveszter as Death that much strange. I think he looks wores on photos than on stage But that´s maybe because his acting was too stunning. ;-) Still they should give Zsolt another look. Máté had a different one, too, so why not him either? :?
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Post by Valancy on Aug 24, 2009 3:37:19 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't know, I've had a weird mixed-cast karma. I know there were full first- and second-cast performances all the time, too - maybe roughly half of the shows, I'd say - but somehow I always ended up in the mixed ones. Though sometimes it was a case of almost full one or other cast and just a couple of actors that were the other. Actually, I might need to up the number by one - I think I did once have a full second cast in Romeo and Juliet. (Full first cast never happened so far. Oh well, after a few shows I was anyway desperately after mixed casts, since I dearly wanted second cast Romeo, Juliet, Mercutio and Benvolio but a Tybalt I could watch. ;D) I think in some shows, like Rudolf, they've had an easier time filling both casts with people who sell well and so they don't need to mix so much (though... I had a mixed cast in Rudolf... see, mixed cast karma!). Maybe in Rebecca they can also be more regular - while Zoli and Dóra are big favourites, Szilveszter and Zsuzsi certainly have enough fans to sell tickets, so they can probably more easily keep to full first and second casts. Szilveszter's stage charisma does a great deal live. But I also think he's just amazingly un-photogenic and that comes across in the Death photos, too. When you see him act and move, the effect is different. Because all these photo galleries can't come out at the same time, of course: here are some more photos of both casts in Szeged. www.operettszinhaz.hu/galeria.php?kategoria=145&kep=4225 (And btw, Dolhai Attila played Rudolf in every performance, I think because Szabó Dávid needed a holiday. In the case anyone's wondering why it's always Attila in the pictures.) And there's also a gallery of the after-show party - guests include Sylvester Levay and *eyeroll* Uwe Kröger. www.operettszinhaz.hu/galeria.php?kategoria=146&kep=4303Btw, I don't remember if I've said this, but it's said that there'd be an official DVD filmed at Szeged. According to some musical website it'd come out for Christmas, though I don't know if that's true. I guess it's naturally with the full first cast - well, I'm happy about the men if not so happy about the women.
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safira
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Post by safira on Aug 24, 2009 13:57:11 GMT -5
Oh, that´s really a mixed cast karma! Amazing! I really hope for the DVD! This would be so great - except for my bank account. Thanks for the new links. I love the 14th picture, where Lévay Szilveszter kisses Kerényi Miklós Gábor.
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Post by Valancy on Aug 25, 2009 7:13:22 GMT -5
Yeah, my bank account isn't at all happy about the idea either. But I'm glad that there's going to be a DVD of a different production than the Vienna one as well (not counting the Takarazuka productions because that's something much more different). I love the Vienna production, but there are so many different versions of this musical that it's great to have more of them on DVD. And this'll have a very different cast - Szilveszter is a very different Death than Máté, Zoli is a fantastic Franz-Joseph, and I can't tell you how glad I am that there'll be a DVD with a Rudolf who's got spine and personality and acting skills and a good voice (not to mention being attractive enough that you can actually bother about Death kissing him... er, not that that's a priority to me or anything...). I'm just miffed that instead of the most fantastic Elisabeth I've ever seen (Niki) it will surely have the one that I didn't even like when I saw her live (Kata). But that could be expected. Levay's just adorable, isn't he? He's so sweet in those pictures - and hehe, yes, especially in that one. ;D
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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Aug 25, 2009 10:17:56 GMT -5
Question: if that DVD does happen, which will be the probable Cast?
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Post by Valancy on Aug 25, 2009 10:43:07 GMT -5
The full first cast, ie. the same that I believe a lot of us have seen on some *cough* material. Kata, Szilveszter, Földes Tamás, Bereczki Zoltán, Dolhai Attila etc. I'll tell you if I find out it's something else, but usually they film the full first cast if they make an official DVD, and I understand it was filmed on days that had the first cast.
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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Aug 25, 2009 12:19:33 GMT -5
So Kata is STILL playing the role? Alongside Bernardett and Nikolett? If that's the Cast it won't be that interesting =\
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Post by Valancy on Aug 25, 2009 14:08:44 GMT -5
Yeah, yeah, she is. The DVD was already filmed in Szeged as I understand, and she and Niki were playing the leads alternately. I have been hoping she'd give up the role after this, but I just looked at the October cast list for Elisabeth, and while the daily cast lists aren't up yet (it still lists every actor for each role), the list has been updated to remove Máté and replace him with Zsolt. So, Zsolt is indeed replacing Máté; and Kata is still there along with Nikolett and Bernadett. I'm rather annoyed at her still being there, because I so hoped that the rumours of her giving it up would be true and from now on I could be sure to catch a good Elisabeth any time. But no. Le sigh.
I'm interested in the DVD because of the men, but I dearly wish they could have taken the ladies from the second cast instead.
Another cast change that turned up on the October list: Mészáros Árpád Zsolt (known as Benvolio in Rómeó és Júlia and a bunch of other roles) is listed as Lucheni, besides Földes Tamás and Száraz Tamás. I'm so surprised that I don't even know what to say of this. My ears are already dreading the idea of him singing "Milch" and "Kitsch" but acting-wise this might be one of the roles where I would like him. I don't know. I'm really surprised, I would never have thought of this.
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