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Post by Valancy on Apr 4, 2008 1:47:39 GMT -5
I didn't say that Goth=leather. Actually, the first thing I think of when I think of "Goth" is ladies in gorgeous corsets and velvet skirts, probably because that's how I'd dress if I had money. I just want Death in leather and in Gothic style. I'm also not saying that other costumes haven't been Gothic in style, but what I was thinking of was to make him look like a certain stylish kind of a modern-day Goth. (Some of them can be very stylish, and definitely not at all Satanic.) The Vienna version tries to partly make him look like he's from our time, only in the 90's he looked 80's and in the 2000's he looked 90's, maybe they could update it a bit more. I'm just not awfully fond of the Essen coat for Death. The idea of timelessness is a nice but I don't like the way it's been done, just like I like the idea of a modern-day Death (or Elisabeth's-era Death) in Vienna but not the way it's been done. I like the Hungarian coat and hair, but there the trousers look stupid, especially in white. Maybe if they put the Hungarian Death in nicely fitting black leather trousers, I would be happy. In any case, I hope now nobody will have to wear a blond wig.
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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Apr 4, 2008 6:17:59 GMT -5
Ah ok! I understood you wanted him dressed as the typical "goth" people know (the guy all in black leather with the white face etc etc etc). As for the ladies in corsets and velvet skirts I totaly agree with you, I love the style. Strangly enough I've never been fond of men dressed in leather nor the most common kind of Gothic style for men...but then again the thing is...if I was going to dress Death in the Goth style I like for man, he would end up looking more like a Vampire and not exactly Death. (Vampire not as in Von Krolock nor Dracula...I think you know what I mean) About the Hungarian costume for Death I just like what they have done with the hair. I'm not sure about the leather trousers...I've seen tooo much leather already in Romeo ès Julia On the wig I totaly agree with you. I find it ridiculous. Let them use their own hair, and if nevessary get the Dutch red costume for Death wich was actually quite nice.
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Post by Valancy on Apr 4, 2008 8:18:49 GMT -5
Either we have more Goths in Finland or we have different ones or I have an auto-romanticizing feature built into my brain which immediately turns what I see into something more beautiful and elegant, because I didn't really think of that at all when I was thinking about Goths. Hmm - I have a rather particular style I'm imagining and I'm not very good at describing it. I never actually liked the Dutch Death costume. It looks like they're trying to dress him up as the Devil. I just don't like the style of the coat at all. Some other version of red could work quite nicely. Velvet in some form could work really nicely, though. I rather liked the Finnish Death coat. Heh, I rather like leather on men if it's good-looking and nicely fitting leather on men whom one may want to see in leather.
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Post by Nene on Apr 4, 2008 9:34:50 GMT -5
I liked the Dutch costume for Death because they used color. I liked that because it's nice to see someone not rely on black. I think the coat gave him a bit more flair and passion. Though overall I think it could have been better.
I know what you're aiming for Valancy, but I am not going to agree with it because I am not a big fan of mixing one character's style with something way earlier.
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Post by Cia on Apr 4, 2008 10:16:52 GMT -5
I think what Fantasma has in mind might be closer to our 'hevari' (ie. people who love heavy metal/rock music and show it), whereas Goths are more... gothic. Stylish. Beautiful. I don't know all the subcultures of the subculture, though, there are a gazillion kind of Goths and half of them claim that they are not Goths. I tried to look for good-looking Gothic men but online shops seem to lack stylish men's wear and for example here the rare male examples are more the leather-and-chains type of Goths. I do like the idea of a Gothic Death, but it depends on what the costume designer understands with 'Goth'. In the musical Death is usually thought as a rock star but nowadays the Elvis-like rock stars a la Vienna Death are a bit out-of-date... The bathrobe in Germany just looks boring and the Dutch costume too much like a Devil, though it could be developed.
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Post by IchBinRory on Apr 4, 2008 10:37:01 GMT -5
I agree that the Vienna costumes are way out if date and as for the white costume with tassels... It makes me cringe everytime I see it. I like the idea of the long black coat because it makes Death almost look like a great looming shadow which reflects well in certain song numbers, but at the sametime it's boring and I also think it restricts the amount of choreography that can be done due to it's length (unlike vienna where death jumps around like a rabbit on crack). The dutch costume was new and refreshing but I don't like the idea of death as Lucifer.
Hairstyles don't really bother me that much and I'm all for keep the natural hair. But when we say gothic, do we mean gothic as in the "gothic time period" or gothic as in the "modern day goth"?
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Post by Nene on Apr 4, 2008 10:40:41 GMT -5
I have a question. Why do people think the Dutch Death looks like Satan? Is it just because it's a red coat? I honestly don't understand it.
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Post by Cia on Apr 4, 2008 10:49:37 GMT -5
Sorry, the Finnish term is used actually only for the modern style and I tend to forget that the meaning of Goth/Gothic in English isn't that clear. So I was speaking of modern style and I assume Valancy did so as well. I have a question. Why do people think the Dutch Death looks like Satan? Is it just because it's a red coat? I honestly don't understand it. I'm not sure, his appearance just screams "Lucifer!!!" to me. Probably because of the combination of red & black, especially when Stanley himself is somewhat darker as well.
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Post by Nene on Apr 4, 2008 12:01:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure, his appearance just screams "Lucifer!!!" to me. Probably because of the combination of red & black, especially when Stanley himself is somewhat darker as well. Ok, I still really don't see it myself. But I guess that's just one association.
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Post by IchBinRory on Apr 4, 2008 14:06:37 GMT -5
I'm not sure, his appearance just screams "Lucifer!!!" to me. Probably because of the combination of red & black, especially when Stanley himself is somewhat darker as well. Ok, I still really don't see it myself. But I guess that's just one association. Perhaps thats just me, but to me the costume seems to match some sort of devil like character. I suppose its a combination of Stanley's evil look and the red & black.
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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Apr 4, 2008 14:30:01 GMT -5
About the "Devil" thing: I do think he looks a bit like Satan, but a Modern Satan a la Devil's Advocate. Nevertheless I really like it, and I like even more the black coat Stanley uses in "Die Maladie". Now, I'm adressing you one by one since quoting would give me...too much work and I'm lazy To Cia: Its exactly that what I was thinking You must have magic powers since you always go right to what I'm trying to say ;D To Valancy: As I understand, Nordic countries have much more goths than South European countries (in this case I'm just talking about Portugal.) I can find two reasons: 1st its much hotter here and leather and dark colours are not exactly the most confort type of cloths to wear. (tell me about it! My cloths are mainly black or of dark colours ) 2nd the nordic countries have a much more open view towards liberty. Gothic people here, no matter how pretty and not stereotyped they are always get those glances from other people like "drop dead you freak". Also we are a Catholic and very conservative Nation and Gothic people are normaly very connected in people's mind with satanists. Then again the goths we have are 99.9% from the "type" Cia described....
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Post by Valancy on Apr 4, 2008 15:19:19 GMT -5
I don't know exactly why the Dutch Death looks like some image of Devil, that's just what he connects to in my mind. Or rather, the coat. I like the fact that they used colour - it's more imaginative than black, and Stanley would be too easily lost in the shadows in black because he's so dark. But somehow I can't stand that style of the coat that he wears. It's too ordinary somehow, and combined with that shade of red it just... clashes with what I would like to see, I don't know. A lot of other people I've talked to also see the Devil association, so I think it's some pop culture image it refers to, though I can't think of where it comes from.
The Finnish Death also wore red sometimes, a coat of deep crimson velvet. It was a bit shabby-looking, though, the black coat was better made. I kept trying to figure out if there was a symbolism to when he wore the red one, but I was never sure. If I recall correctly he wore it for Elisabeth mach auf, Maladie, Mayerling and the nightmare scene (but changed to black for Der Schleier fällt).
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Post by Nene on Apr 4, 2008 15:23:23 GMT -5
Well, I don't think Stanley looks like the devil... I feel like we should start another thread devoted to Death's costume because I think we could stay on this subject for pages. Honestly, I would like a little more variety in Death's costumes throughout the show.
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Post by Valancy on Apr 4, 2008 15:25:45 GMT -5
It's true, we're getting way off topic! Hmm, I must have started it, but I blame you all for continuing. I wonder if there actually was a topic related to this way back,somehow I seem to remember such a topic... I'll go and see if I can find it. (If I do find it, I'll probably notice that I've said something completely different a year ago. Such is life.) And no, I don't think Stanley looks like the Devil either, just his coat.
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aaric
Audience Member
Posts: 38
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Post by aaric on Apr 15, 2008 2:16:12 GMT -5
I THINK they're going to have new costumes! Someone who actually understands German will be able to tell us for sure but I found an interview with Harry Kupfer today and he says: BILD Auf welche Neuheiten dürfen wir uns freuen? Harry Kupfer: „Neues Bühnenbild, neue Kostüme, mehr verrate ich nicht.“ The website is: www.bild.de/BILD/berlin/leute/2008/04/15/harry-kupfer/er-bringt-sissi-nach-berlin,geo=4270222.html
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