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Post by Andreas on Jun 20, 2007 10:01:32 GMT -5
But VBW could at least help with the Cast Recordings. They don't have a lot of money either... Some years ago the VBW nearly went bankrupt!
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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Jun 20, 2007 10:06:21 GMT -5
But VBW could at least help with the Cast Recordings. They don't have a lot of money either... Some years ago the VBW nearly went bankrupt! You must be kidding...the same company that produces a such expensive show as Rebecca was nearly bankrupt??? Dear Lord, I start to understand very little of economics...lol And I was concerned that Rebecca couldn't come to Portugal because of the sets cost lol
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Post by Cia on Jun 20, 2007 10:38:03 GMT -5
They don't have a lot of money either... Some years ago the VBW nearly went bankrupt! You must be kidding...the same company that produces a such expensive show as Rebecca was nearly bankrupt??? Dear Lord, I start to understand very little of economics...lol They've had a bunch of flops lately (Barbarella, Wake Up!, etc.) and they really needed a successful musical after those so I'm happy that Rebecca's doing well. I don't know what would have happened if Rebecca had been a flop... They still have some financial problems and need to be careful with what they do.
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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Jun 20, 2007 11:31:56 GMT -5
Well...maybe that explain why they are so strict on giving the rights to perform for example Elisabeth. On the other hand, if they did gave them more easly they could get more money... As for Rebecca, I would strange if it wasn't a sucess...the story is great for a musical, and the authors...well I don't need to say anything about them. just a very bad staging, or actors could turned it into a flop. But yeh, I see...the financial carefulness is also very important here. Our producer says "To stage a musical is like walking on the rope...if we are not very very carefull and attend to every detail we fall, and we die."
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Post by Andreas on Jun 20, 2007 15:10:58 GMT -5
Before Rebecca had its premiere people had said that Rebecca would have to be as successfull as Elisabeth or the VBW would probably not survive.
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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Jun 20, 2007 15:35:26 GMT -5
Before Rebecca had its premiere people had said that Rebecca would have to be as successfull as Elisabeth or the VBW would probably not survive. People may say it won't...nut I believe it will. If it is not AS sucessfull as Elisabeth in Austria its because...well...Elisabeth is about the history of your country. At least here in Portugal I can assure Rebecca would be very sucessfull (more than Elisabeth perhaps)
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Post by exedore on Jun 20, 2007 21:49:29 GMT -5
Apologies now for the threadjack...
Cia wrote:
Even though Wake Up failed to turn a profit, it still managed to stay open for two years thanks to stunt casting. I saw the production towards the end of its run and laughed the entire time at just how awful a show could be. If ever there was a reason to test a show out of town and revise, it was this. In fact, it was so bad that I took a friend with me to see it again and prove that I wasn't crazy. My *guess* as somebody who has no access to VBW's financial and planning records is that they didn't have anything to move into the Raimund quickly enough to kick Wake Up out and keep with Barbarella's production schedule. Even an import would have taken some extra time to bring in, though delaying Barbarella (which deserved its run) in its favour would have made better financial sense.
On a related now, how did Romeo & Julia do?
Fantasma wrote:
A show can run for years without turning a profit (see: NYC's production of Altar Boyz). While VBW relies heavily on subsidies and acts as a non-profit (all money has to go back into the company), it is still subject to the economics of the theatre.
For example, Show A cost €10 million to capitalise and cover startup costs. This includes translation/comissioning, sets, costumes, casting staff, lighting and sound design, advertising, filming a press reel, paying the actors to go on tv for interviews, workshop space, etc. In addition to these costs, there are an additional set of fixed weekly costs: salaries for the cast, orchestra, and crew, theatre rental, utilities (the show pays the electric bill), b.o. staff, continued press, taxes, etc. and it all adds up. These weekly costs, known as the "nut", determine a show's ongoing financial status. If a show makes its nut but fails to earn anything else can run into infinity, but the producers will never see a dime. If a show makes over its nut, the show will begin to repay investors from the leftovers after expenses - a process that can take two to three years for a large production. A show that fails to make its nut on a regular basis, of course, doesn't repay anything and closes as a flop. In the commercial theatre, most rental contracts include a "stop clause", where the theatre's owners can kick out a show that fails to pay its bills for a defined number of weeks, freeing the space for a (hopefully) more profitable client.
VBW has no stop clauses, as they own their theatres and sign everything to 1 year contracts.
Fantasma also wrote:
There are a few things getting in the way of show rights going around easily. One is that while VBW own the licensing rights, the authors (in this case Kunze and Levay) retain the actual copyright over the piece. The writing team *AND* VBW need to agree to the license in order for a production to proceed, and after the TdV fiasco, Kunze is *EXTREMELY* possessive of his work if he doesn't see a clear artistic or financial benefit from the license (hence the reason Takarazuka can continue to perform their neutered Elisabeth).
The second reason is that the rights are undoubtedly expensive for VBW's original shows. These are large scale, Broadway calibre works and VBW have a (tarred) reputation to maintain, so they can pick and choose who gets to produce what with the hope of looking as good as possible. Licensing is *big* business, to the point that a massive flop on Broadway can turn its original producers a profit through regional and amateur licensing (see: Sweeney Todd, Seussical).
Like it or not, it's a business.
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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Jun 21, 2007 8:34:34 GMT -5
Yes I know that. Although I think there are other ways of doing business. I think, to a company that almost bankrupted it is strange that they are so stricted. Acording to what Herr Kunze told me, for example, he doesn't have any power over the licencing of Elisabeth. VBW as all the rights to licencing and selling them. THOUGH Herr Kunze can interfeer in the negotiations if we wants, but he never did that so far. As far as I know, not bad, nut not a sucess either since the lyrics were bad (guilty of the french ones I keep saying) *Brae, Lora I promise I'll try now to keep to topic* As for Rebecca (see? topic!) I think VBW made a great bet on the show. I know how expensive the show is, and I do think it as all what it needs to work. I know some people (expecialy english and American people tend to criticize because they call it, as I've read in other Forums a "broadway-wanna-be show". On the other hand I've also read austo-german people saying that its to West-end-like and they didn't like it either. I think it is both. We have that touch of innocence and pain in "Ichs" character wich can be a bit similar to Elisabeth...first afraid and then conscious about herself. That is tipical austrian Musicals. Then we have Mrs. Danvers, a dark, spooky, obcessed character. She doesn't love "Ich", but loves "Rebecca". We can compare a bit to Phantom of the Opera in that way. She does everything for Rebecca. That would be the West-End/ ALW show touch. It is a more ecletic show, wich I think can grasp more people. If Rebecca was been made by ALW or just wrote and staged Elisabeth-like it wouldn't be as sucessful as the show is beeing. In a ALW show it would be focused on Mrs. Danvers as the buggy-man. In a Elisabeth-like it would be more centered in Maxims tortured mind. So I think Rebecca as a pretty good balance, wich explains the sucess of the show, and the fact that, in less than a year of staging is already been exported to Scandinavia and Japan.
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Post by Bradford on Jun 21, 2007 11:28:39 GMT -5
I have to disagree strongly on the ALW point. The Phantom of the Opera is not centered on the Phantom, but on Christine! and her choice between the rich and handsome or the ugly and talented man. Nor is "The Woman in white" based on Percival Glyde and his wrong-doings, but on the love-triangle between Marian, Laura and Walter. I have faith in ALW and believe he would have done an amazing musical based on Rebecca, as a mater of fact I think he could've done it even better. I just prefer his style more, opposed to the 50-ies movie music style of Levay. Just my opinion though.
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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Jun 21, 2007 11:43:15 GMT -5
I have to disagree strongly on the ALW point. The Phantom of the Opera is not centered on the Phantom, but on Christine! and her choice between the rich and handsome or the ugly and talented man. And I must disagree on this ;D Phantom of the Opera is suposed to be based on the torured life of a disformed man, in love by a chorus girl. The fact that there is a love triangle is also important but just to make more clear the obcessive love of the Phantom and what is twisted mind could do for love. Just like Mrs. Danvers, who tries to lead "Ich" to suicide. As for ALW, I had more faith on him, than I have now. I really don't think it is 50-s music. Levay creates music more in the way of lets say John Williams. ALW is more an Opera-type composer. As I like both styles, I'm not going to criticize lol
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Post by duketgg on Jun 21, 2007 12:00:22 GMT -5
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Post by Bradford on Jun 21, 2007 12:04:34 GMT -5
I really don't think it is 50-s music. Levay creates music more in the way of lets say John Williams. ALW is more an Opera-type composer. As I like both styles, I'm not going to criticize lol Well, Rebecca is not that much of a cheap 50-ies movie music style as Elisabeth is. Levay composed music for movies before turning to musicals anyhow. And having only heard Star Wars and Harry Potter from John Williams and reflecting especially to the Harry Potter 3 soundtrack I don't find their styles simmilar at all! But I agree That ALW is more of an Opera-type composer, wonder why he has never written an opera this far?
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Post by clochette on Jun 21, 2007 12:47:07 GMT -5
Jesus Christ Superstar is a "Rock-Opera".
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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Jun 21, 2007 12:56:19 GMT -5
I really don't think it is 50-s music. Levay creates music more in the way of lets say John Williams. ALW is more an Opera-type composer. As I like both styles, I'm not going to criticize lol Well, Rebecca is not that much of a cheap 50-ies movie music style as Elisabeth is. Levay composed music for movies before turning to musicals anyhow. And having only heard Star Wars and Harry Potter from John Williams and reflecting especially to the Harry Potter 3 soundtrack I don't find their styles simmilar at all! But I agree That ALW is more of an Opera-type composer, wonder why he has never written an opera this far? If some Elisabeth-mad-fan sees you calling the Elisabeth music "cheap 50's" I think you will be in great live danger loool. As for ALW, he wrote an Opera. Phantom of the Opera was first meant to be an Opera, then smoothed. But Requiem for example is Opera. And he is considering, acording to his website, in turning a project he have in an Opera. About John Williams, the 3rd CD of Harry Potter is the most different from his style. That is one of the reasons why the 4th CD was composed by Patrick Doyle as far as I know. Schindlers List is also by John Williams. And well, both John Williams and Levay composed music for Spielberg so...
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Post by Klarinette on Jun 21, 2007 13:32:20 GMT -5
Bah, seems like I'm always speaking out of turn like that. Forgive me. I just remember reading an entire page about Michael Crawford's changes to the musical. Those are some pretty awful lyrics. And Jim Steinman wrote them himself, yes? To clear up some other things: ALW's Requiem is not an opera. It's a requiem. And the fourth Harry Potter was composed by Patrick Doyle because Williams was working on Episode III. I've been wondering how Rebecca would turn out in the hands of ALW, though. Of course, I can't really imagine anything myself. I don't think it would be as good overall as Levay's, though.
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