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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Dec 25, 2011 13:52:44 GMT -5
I know enough to form an opinion. As I've read enough to form an opinion on you Dear Anonymous Guest. It's a pitty I have to put up with this during Christmas but I see your stupidity knows no Holidays.
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Post by Eine Hexe on Dec 25, 2011 17:06:20 GMT -5
Jaysus, if you think discussion with us is a waste of time, why did you come here?
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Post by Guest on Dec 25, 2011 20:04:15 GMT -5
Interesting how people behave when they realize that they don't have any contentual arguments... How can they have them when they didn't bother to see the show they are talking about. Man, how pitiful is this...
Just to remind you, all of this is about Mrs Hakvoort and Mr Borchert, not about me. Insulting me is one thing, if it turns you on, fine. But stop being that disrespectful towards people who are just doing their jobs. Doing it extremely well by the way. Go see them live, form an opinion, everything's fantastic. But as I said before, your postings here don't have anything to do with reasonable expressions of opinion, what you are doing is pure bashing and disparagement! Maya is not Susan, she has found her right own way of portaying the character of Mrs Danvers. A far more human way. I can't say which one is better or the right way because it is simply DIFFERENT. No better or worse! Who do you think you are, babbling about how she sucks?! And Thomas as Maxim... well, Uwe definately was great but Thomas is not as artificial in his acting and he has every single note the part demands. Even the "Nacht" in "Gott, warum?" and "Rauch" in "Manderley in Flammen". He is the far better singer, Uwe can only dream about this. He never ever was that good, even back in better days, when his voice did exist...
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Albert
At the stage door
Posts: 62
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Post by Albert on Dec 26, 2011 0:08:48 GMT -5
Hi Guest,
First of all, I'd like to say thank you for validating my opinion on Lisa. She was just divine!
Secondly, I'm interested to know how you found Maya's performance. "Different" is how you described it above and though it doesn't make sense to say one is better than the other, surely you must have a favourite (as you've probably seen as many Danny's as I's). Tell me how you like Danvers played and what strikes you. Pia has talked about her take on Danvers, which is that of a woman struggling to hold dominion over Manderley. In this sense, her purposes seem more mercenary and it's really a battle between her and I to see who remains queen of the estate. That seems a good take as well.
Lastly, I want to ask if you've seen the show as well in Stuttgart. As I've yet to meet anyone else online who has seen the show in St. Gallen as well as the other productions, I'd love to hear comparisons. Stuttgart would be the most ideal since it's the closest both in location and in presentation. From the clips I've seen, Thomas seems to have more chemistry with Lucy than with Lisa (which at times I thought felt a bit forced). Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks again.
Albert
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Post by Guest on Dec 26, 2011 5:59:42 GMT -5
I really loved Susan's Danvers. I was so impressed with her voice in the first season in Vienna (which by the way, was very much weaker in 2008). I thought there could be no one better way of playing Danvers until I saw Kerstin Ibald playing the part. Her Danny was much more desperate, Susan was like a block of ice to me. Which is a very good way for playing the constellation Danvers - "I". But when it comes to Danvers - Rebecca, to me it is not believable anymore. What I want to say is, that with Susan's Danvers I simply can't imagine a warm an friendly behavior when Rebecca was alive. She is too cold for me. Maya has a totally different way, as I said before. And I think it is very, very understandable. To me she is like a mother who lost her child. Her Danvers is a broken person, she is drowning in her grief. And becomes mad because of it. It becomes very clear how much she has loved Rebecca. It fascinates me how she slippes into her own world ("Die neue Mrs de Winter", or during the first titlesong) from time to time. I also love her "Sie ergibt sich nicht", not one of my favs normally. Just the way her expression changes when she thinks of Rebecca. It's magnificent! Or the tears in her heyes during "Rebecca", just wow!! BUT: Even if I really enjoy her performance, I'm not sure if this way of playing Danvers is good for the show. Normally there are the three main characters, "I", Maxim and Mrs Danvers. "I" is the good one, the audience has to like her, feels with her, pities her. Maxim is somewhere in between, dark secret, yes, maybe a murderer, but still likeable. And in act 2 pitiful as well. So we all want the two of them to be happy, Mrs Danvers is the one who stands between them and their happiness. But in St. Gallen Mrs Danvers is more like a third person the audience can feel with and have pity for. There is this one part in "Mrs de Winter bin ich" where "I" smashes the cupid again. In every other show I was like "Haha, yes, do it, make her pay for what she has done to you!". In St. Gallen I was more like "Oh no, poor Danny! It's enough, don't do that to her!". Maya's "NEEEIIIIIIIIN" only added to this compassion. So the parts are a little upside down here. I'm still not sure if I like it or not... But as I said, for Maya's portraial of Danvers I can only say: fantastic! A very new way of showing this lady and her feelings! I haven't been to Stuttgart yet, not too sure if I really want to see Lucy. I loved her as Glinda and as Jenny Hartmann in Hand aufs Herz, but I wasn't too fond of her Sarah and Lulu. For me she is not exactely the type to play "I". She reminds me of Jana Stelley, who was the only "I" I didn't like at all. But Lucy got very good reviews and maybe after all I can't resist and still will see her. Have to admit that I'm a little curious...
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Post by Eine Hexe on Dec 26, 2011 8:23:26 GMT -5
Just to remind you, all of this is about Mrs Hakvoort and Mr Borchert, not about me. Insulting me is one thing, if it turns you on, fine. But stop being that disrespectful towards people who are just doing their jobs. Doing it extremely well by the way. I understand that when you tell people to shut up it is full of respect for them and their opinions? Pot and kettle, all over again. I 've never found Uwe's acting artificial. As for Thomas as Maxim, he has moments I like, but also some I like less. There is nothing wrong with a restrained Maxim, but I'd like to see him a tad more expressive when the song demands it. I assume you somehow missed everything Uwe did before "Rebecca"? Because if you didn't, you would know that he did have a marvellous voice. Borchert is a great singer, but hardly better than Uwe in his prime.
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Post by Guest on Dec 26, 2011 10:10:21 GMT -5
I understand that when you tell people to shut up it is full of respect for them and their opinions? I certainly did not tell her to shut up in general but only on things she doesn't have a clue of! I assume you somehow missed everything Uwe did before "Rebecca"? Because if you didn't, you would know that he did have a marvellous voice. Borchert is a great singer, but hardly better than Uwe in his prime. And when was that time that you call "his prime"? For me the last role he did not have problems with (vocally) was der Tod in Essen! After that he always, ALWAYS cracked after a few months doing it! I generally think that Uwe never was the greatest singer, he always benefitted from his extreme stage presence and acting skills (which I found kinda artificial from time to time). I LOVED him as Maxim, I did! But I think that there are points (not only vocally) that Thomas is simply better with. But don't get me wrong, there still are other parts in the show where I still prefer Uwe. I couldn't tell whom I prefer as Maxim, I love them both (never was a big fan of Thomas before though).
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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Dec 26, 2011 10:23:35 GMT -5
LOL! Don't bash Maya...but it's perfectly OK to bash Uwe with the exact same arguments. Dear Guest, you're pathetic. That's all I'm going to say. I won't discuss any further with you until you stop being a coward and leave the "guest realm".
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Albert
At the stage door
Posts: 62
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Post by Albert on Dec 26, 2011 10:31:35 GMT -5
Guest,
Thanks for the very detailed explanation you gave on Danvers. If you'll notice, in my own post on this, I had the same opinion on Maya down to the heartbreaking figurine smashing. I do however think it's perfectly acceptable to have a Danvers we can care about. It just feels more realistic to me than dealing with a cold nearly supernatural creature of the night like some portrayals seem to be. It makes the story more accessible and lets us see the sequence of events as a real challenge a couple goes through to be stronger.
One more scene that struck me was the "Rebecca's Geist..." line in the opening song. Maya almost looked as though she were floating and lost and in another world. That spooked me out and I knew from then I was in for a great night of theatre.
I hope you make it to Stuttgart and please be sure to let us know how that goes if ever. :-)
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Post by Guest on Dec 26, 2011 11:38:35 GMT -5
Yeees, I know was you mean and you're so right! That really was spooky! I also loved how she acted during the "Ihr Haar war dicht und weich, ich kämmte es genau wies ihr gefiel"-lines! Like Rebecca was sitting in this very chair!! As I said before, I really liked or maybe even loved the way Maya portrayed the character, but I'm still not sure if I really want to pity everyone in the show LOL! Don't bash Maya...but it's perfectly OK to bash Uwe with the exact same arguments. Dear Guest, you're pathetic. That's all I'm going to say. Are you kidding me or do you really don't see the difference(es)?!! 1. I'm not bashing anyone, I said that I loved Uwe as Maxim and that he has an enormous stage presence and great acting skills! But I don't need to like anything about him, do I? If this is bashing for you... oh dear! I never used any harsh words like "he sucks" or anything else! I have far too much respect or everyone on stage to do so! 2. I saw him play these roles live on stage! I didn't watch a clip of only a few minutes, filmed during a rehearsal, I saw and heard him a whole evening long! I would never ever judge someone who I only know from YouTube or some tv-reports. This is exactely what is so embarrassing about your post (plus the rude choice of words of course...).
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Post by Eine Hexe on Dec 26, 2011 12:34:08 GMT -5
And when was that time that you call "his prime"? For me the last role he did not have problems with (vocally) was der Tod in Essen! After that he always, ALWAYS cracked after a few months doing it! He did not start his career in Essen, mind you. Shall I copy&paste here the list of his roles from the period 1998-2001, or what? And after Essen "Elisabeth" he had a lot of great performances. And I do not agree with you. He was great in his time. You have to have some good vocal chops to sing Der Tod's part. And he not only sang it, he made this role a legend. Weird. There are some roles that fit hm better, von Krolock for that matter. He rocked as Graf (as long as he didn't get bored with it) much more than as Maxim.
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Post by Guest on Dec 26, 2011 14:25:29 GMT -5
Yeah, great, then now 2 different opinions is what we have here! I was a huge fan of Uwe's for years, I know what roles he played and how he was on form or not. About 2, 2,5 years ago I got more and more interested in other performers, so what? But I think this here is not about Uwe anyway... I wanted to make a point regarding respect for the actors on stage. This I did... and this is it! But thx for your postings, Albert! Talking with other fans in a profound way is always a pleasure!
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Post by Eine Hexe on Dec 26, 2011 14:41:39 GMT -5
Yeah, great, then now 2 different opinions is what we have here! That is what makes the discussion boards run, ya know. So that you asked when he was in his vocal prime, and I gave you your answer. Uwe was actually a hell of a singer once, you like it or not. The same league as Borchert, maybe even better. You dragged him into discussion. Short memory? Less butter in diet I recommend. Where exactly have I shown a disrecpect for Thomas? I have a full right to not like his interpretation of Maxim, as much as you have a right to not like Uwe's. So?
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Post by IchBinRory on Dec 26, 2011 14:46:41 GMT -5
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Post by Fantasma da Opera on Dec 26, 2011 17:12:19 GMT -5
He is the far better singer, Uwe can only dream about this. He never ever was that good, even back in better days, when his voice did exist... Oh, I'm sorry, maybe it was another Guest who wrote this. This wouldn't happen if you gave yourself a name now would it? And just FYI, I base my opinion on Maya on everything else I've seen her do. I know her voice well enough to know that the clip ISN'T that different from what Maya does on stage. I've known her voice for YEARS. And I've heard her sing songs from Rebecca before. So yeah, I don't need to PAY to see her ruining a role that pretty much everyone else already sung better than her. She simply DOESN'T have the voice for it. Even Kata Janza (whom I'm not a fan of) did a better job. Of course, because you don't agree, I'm bashing. But I bet you would applaud if I had said that, for example, Uwe in Rudolf sounded like a goat. Oh, there you would just rejoice! After all his voice didn't existed by then. NO, I will NOT PAY to see Maya on stage just to validate an opinion I already have on her. BUT if you, Dear Guest, would like to pay me a trip to Switzerland (including hotel, plane and show tickets) just to make you happy, be my guest! I will leave the Theatre thinking the same about Maya though...so...just a heads up. I wanted to make a point regarding respect for the actors on stage. Uh, you do know the difference between critic and disrespect don't you? I have nothing against Maya as a person. I don't know her, she can be a lovely woman or the next Stalin. I don't know. HOWEVER I *DO* know her as a performer and, as such, I'm entitled to DON'T like her. Again, if you were not a voyeur, you would have probably know by now that I don't like Maya as a performer. I respect her effort (she does worry about singing correctly) but I don't like nor her voice nor her acting. If you think that just because I don't like her and say it I'm bashing her, I would advice you to NEVER read any Broadway critics. If you think I'm being "disrespectful" they would be just down right arrogant jerks (and some of them ARE). Just get used to it. There are people that DON'T like Maya. Whether you like it or not. (and your logic of: you have to see her in that specific role, live, to judge; is baloney. Do you like fried monkey brain with roasted potatoes? No? Have you tried it? Yeah...exactly)
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